If I cared about OpenOffice.org, perhaps ;) I see it as Windows bloatware. Us *nix users have KSpread to use :)
KSpread is bloatware. The truest *nix users are content with bc and a handful of shell scripts. :-)
I also don't care about OpenOffice (because it is bloatware), nor use bc (I use MySQL for columnar math), but the principle of not complaining about open source software is the issue, not upgrading to a new class of complaint about the software in question.
I'm really lame as a Linux operator, but I do understand the principles. We must labor hard to preserve the attitude of gratitude which is the only payment required of those who put in the hours coding free software.
-Jared
On Wednesday 13 June 2007 05:00:03 pm Jared wrote:
We must labor hard to preserve the attitude of gratitude which is the only payment required of those who put in the hours coding free software.
Bull.
If it's crap software, we have an obligation to say so. If it has problems, we are not obliged to be able to completely recode the program, nor do we need to fork the project in order to be able to point out wrong-headed policies.
GOOD software developers are eager to get feedback from people who have the perspective of not being so buried in the code they can't see basic things wrong with the UI, or an obvious function that's been overlooked because the coder always uses vi.
Providing feedback is a legitimate contribution to software development. No, we need not grovel at the coder's feet and worship his code droppings because he has been generous enough to bestow them on us. It takes a community to develop good software.
On 6/13/07, Jonathan Hutchins hutchins@tarcanfel.org wrote:
On Wednesday 13 June 2007 05:00:03 pm Jared wrote:
We must labor hard to preserve the attitude of gratitude which is the only payment required of those who put in the hours coding free software.
Bull.
If it's crap software, we have an obligation to say so. If it has problems, we are not obliged to be able to completely recode the program, nor do we need to fork the project in order to be able to point out wrong-headed policies.
GOOD software developers are eager to get feedback from people who have the perspective of not being so buried in the code they can't see basic things wrong with the UI, or an obvious function that's been overlooked because the coder always uses vi.
Providing feedback is a legitimate contribution to software development. No, we need not grovel at the coder's feet and worship his code droppings because he has been generous enough to bestow them on us. It takes a community to develop good software.
Lighten up a bit eh?
I have been getting rather amused at your perceived need for sarcasm. It's nice to be on a list where free expression is allowed, yet being able to does not always equate to needing to. Overall you did make some REALLY good points. But sadly, the sarcasm makes many folks view see only the dig and not the constructive. I really do agree with you on the Basic UI and function documentation issues. I think those 2 areas are the greatest return for least effort zone.
Oren
On Jun 13, 2007, at 5:00 PM, Jared wrote:
If I cared about OpenOffice.org, perhaps ;) I see it as Windows bloatware. Us *nix users have KSpread to use :)
KSpread is bloatware. The truest *nix users are content with bc and a handful of shell scripts. :-)
I also don't care about OpenOffice (because it is bloatware), nor use bc (I use MySQL for columnar math), but the principle of not complaining about open source software is the issue, not upgrading to a new class of complaint about the software in question.
I'm really lame as a Linux operator, but I do understand the principles. We must labor hard to preserve the attitude of gratitude which is the only payment required of those who put in the hours coding free software.
-Jared
Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
Dear bloatware,
If I'd say anything was bloatware these days, it'd be the linux kernel itself. I'd blame it on the whole x86 life as well. Everyone wants their favorite hardware and software in the kernel. The same thing happens with software. You get tons of people requesting tons of things, which are useless in the end, it gets in there, and now something simple is complicated and breaks the kernel itself in every release. There should be no problem why a decent OS these days can't be less than 1GB installed, and that is huge! It doesn't even restrict itself to computers, look at car manufacturers! You get new cars every year. And what is different? The looks? More annoyances? Definitely no notice in any greater economy. Maybe we should have never advanced past the 486, it'd make everything critical. Today, if it works, it is fine... forget about efficiency. You can't place KSpread or OpenOffice as the only two things for bloatware. It spreads much farther than programs. It has engulfed the globe.
UNIX users just using bc and a handful of shell scripts? Heh. The world is more than just that. If people will take the time to understand and do everything in a more proper way with consideration of people's time... time is money and money is time... then maybe, instead of a deadline beating us on the head, something better might be produced. If you think something is bloatware, do something about it.
Sincerely,
William
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Jared -
Jonathan Hutchins -
Oren Beck -
William Harrington