I'd say at the very least that the lines I left below are part of your problem. See the -800? That puts you in the wrong time zone. Whether that is due to your settings w/ hotmail from zip or user location in prefs. or due to settings in Thunderbird if you are using it to connect to hotmail as a relay agent, we don't know.
Brian Kelsay
"Oren Beck" oren_beck@hotmail.com 03/22/05 08:01PM >>>
Really? Or shall we consider that no one posting to a Lug list needs NTP!
A dedicated army of Open Source time observers will happily inform you of an out of sync condition.
<big snip>
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From: "Brian Kelsay" Brian.Kelsay@kcc.usda.gov To: kclug@kclug.org Subject: Re: Dune Parody skit. Was RE: whitewigs Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:38:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0
I'd say at the very least that the lines I left below are part of your problem. See the -800? That puts you in the wrong time zone. Whether that is due to your settings w/ hotmail from zip or user location in prefs. or due to settings in Thunderbird if you are using it to connect to hotmail as a relay agent, we don't know.
Brian Kelsay
"Oren Beck" oren_beck@hotmail.com 03/22/05 08:01PM >>>
Really? Or shall we consider that no one posting to a Lug list needs NTP!
A dedicated army of Open Source time observers will happily inform you of an out of sync condition.
The comment was intended as reference to a Monty Pythonesque dialog from the Neil Stephenson book length essay "In the beginning was the command line" This should be essential reading for anyone using or interested in Open Source as a concept.
Book on line at:
http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/nealstephensonOS.html
Quote of relevance to flogging NTP-
The group giving away the free tanks only stays alive because it is staffed by volunteers, who are lined up at the edge of the street with bullhorns, trying to draw customers' attention to this incredible situation. A typical conversation goes something like this:
Hacker with bullhorn: "Save your money! Accept one of our free tanks! It is invulnerable, and can drive across rocks and swamps at ninety miles an hour while getting a hundred miles to the gallon!"
Prospective station wagon buyer: "I know what you say is true...but...er...I don't know how to maintain a tank!"
Bullhorn: "You don't know how to maintain a station wagon either!"
The rest of the essay is even more on the mark for where OS is still at in 2005.
Oh yeah- By the way kiddies- comments about a clock/date error are really more telling on the commentators.
Oren
On Wednesday 23 March 2005 03:27 pm, Oren Beck wrote:
Oh yeah- By the way kiddies- comments about a clock/date error are really more telling on the commentators.
On the contrary. A mis-dated message to a list, especially a tech list, is like a loud fart in an elevator - and there's no doubt who did it.
Jonathan Hutchins wrote:
On Wednesday 23 March 2005 03:27 pm, Oren Beck wrote:
Oh yeah- By the way kiddies- comments about a clock/date error are really more telling on the commentators.
On the contrary. A mis-dated message to a list, especially a tech list, is like a loud fart in an elevator - and there's no doubt who did it. _______________________________________________
Perhaps in some forums where project or version issues were at stake. In a mundane LUG list usually trivial header info is not even looked at . Now to be fair making someone aware of a potential issue can be good. Then again it can get WAY too involved by all parties concerned. So to apply a mercy killing to this thread- "No more ClockNazis."
Oren
I'm always surprised at people who sort by something other than the date. I do "order of arrival", but kmail often falls back to date sent, which makes bad dates really stand out.
Dude! Your into next year! Fix it!
Gaa!, Jim
Oren Beck wrote:
Jonathan Hutchins wrote:
On Wednesday 23 March 2005 03:27 pm, Oren Beck wrote:
Oh yeah- By the way kiddies- comments about a clock/date error are really more telling on the commentators.
On the contrary. A mis-dated message to a list, especially a tech list, is like a loud fart in an elevator - and there's no doubt who did it. _______________________________________________
Perhaps in some forums where project or version issues were at stake. In a mundane LUG list usually trivial header info is not even looked at . Now to be fair making someone aware of a potential issue can be good. Then again it can get WAY too involved by all parties concerned. So to apply a mercy killing to this thread- "No more ClockNazis."
Oren
Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
Well, gmail threading still works, so he can set his clock to whenever as far as I'm concerned.
Now if only google had the forethought to use kclug@kclug.org as the send-to, I'd be set.
On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 21:54:41 -0600, Jim Herrmann kclug@itdepends.com wrote:
Dude! Your into next year! Fix it!
Gaa!, Jim
Oren Beck wrote:
Jonathan Hutchins wrote:
On Wednesday 23 March 2005 03:27 pm, Oren Beck wrote:
Oh yeah- By the way kiddies- comments about a clock/date error are really more telling on the commentators.
On the contrary. A mis-dated message to a list, especially a tech list, is like a loud fart in an elevator - and there's no doubt who did it. _______________________________________________
Perhaps in some forums where project or version issues were at stake. In a mundane LUG list usually trivial header info is not even looked at . Now to be fair making someone aware of a potential issue can be good. Then again it can get WAY too involved by all parties concerned. So to apply a mercy killing to this thread- "No more ClockNazis."
Oren
Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
-- Progressive Values ARE American Values Responsibility, Empathy, Freedom, Opportunity, Prosperity, Fairness, Trust, Honesty, Open Communication, Community, Cooperation http://musicalprogress.org/
Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
On the contrary. A mis-dated message to a list, especially a tech list, is like a loud fart in an elevator - and there's no doubt who did it.
So to apply a mercy killing to this thread- "No more ClockNazis."
This wasn't suppose to be a fartwar/flamewar/ClockNazis/stuff/more stuff/something. I think I was just noting that your time was off and it would be nice if you fix it.
I have an OpenBSD box running OpenNTPD. When a local box time is off (running linux, and soon to be at boottime it will run rdate -s OpenBSD_IP) I just rdate -s OpenBSD_IP and is jumps the time to the server. Then OpenNTPD client on the linux box keeps the time in sync.
Software: http://www.ntp.org/ http://www.openntpd.org/
Thanks,
dj_goku
Jonathan wrote:
This wasn't suppose to be a fartwar/flamewar/ClockNazis/stuff/more stuff/something. I think I was just noting that your time was off and it would be nice if you fix it.
Agreed- to a point quite ok . DO tell me or others that we have a loose thread hanging somewhere but let's keep it on technical track and not let it get personal in either direction.
Which was a mistake I could have made had I continued on my first path.
And the concept of some mail client or list archive issues being caused by bad date/time is valid too. Were one to review this concept and cross impacts some here invoked, perhaps posting times should not be dependent on local clock. To really take this as a point of constructive discourse could anyone here suggest mail software that uses something other than local system time?
Keeping this on a hardware or software interest level was/is a very good thing Where it veered off into personal as opposed to technical was my point of initial comment. I have a hell of a sense of humor and usually jokes at my expense may get a laugh within reason. What my concern was for centered on aborting a wave of straining at Gnats while swallowing camels. Bluntly put nitpicking is often a fatal loop.
Oren
"Yeah- I make misteaks, some of which I have gotten more better now at than others "
On Tuesday 29 March 2005 05:09 pm, Oren Beck wrote:
To really take this as a point of constructive discourse could anyone here suggest mail software that uses something other than local system time?
Well, in order to do that it would have to consult some sort of time reference each time you posted a message. There are ntp time servers out there, and there is the ntpdate program which will perform this function. I suppose a mail client could call ntpdate each time it sent a message.
Much better, though, to have the ntp client program consult the server periodically, and use it to sync the local clock, and possibly even adjust it for drift.
That way, not only the mail program, but any program on the computer can use the correct date; files created and stored on the computer will be accurately timestamped should this ever matter, and you can even set your watch to the PC clock.
I guess what we really need is some sort of time sanity checker that looks at the clock offset and says "your language is set to US English and your timezone is set for Outer Mongolia, besides which your clock is four days off. Do you wish to continue?"
real simple fix: have your MUA forego providing a date header at all. Your first hop upstream MTA will insert one with it's current time.
I doubt this feature will appear anywhere, as those with the capability to insert this patch are as a class not affected by it. Yet. Having thinderbird or evolution or even Pine leave off date headers would be really simple to do, as software patches go. Adding the configuration option would be more complex than providing the feature IMO.
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:34:42 -0600, Jonathan Hutchins hutchins@tarcanfel.org wrote:
On Tuesday 29 March 2005 05:09 pm, Oren Beck wrote:
I guess what we really need is some sort of time sanity checker that looks at the clock offset and says "your language is set to US English and your timezone is set for Outer Mongolia, besides which your clock is four days off. Do you wish to continue?"
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Brian Kelsay -
David Nicol -
Jim Herrmann -
Jonathan -
Jonathan Hutchins -
Justin Dugger -
Oren Beck